Mini-Microsoft Cutting Room Floor

Tuesday, May 05, 2009

Comment Stream - "Microsoft Layoffs - Cinco de Fire-o"

Unmoderated comment stream for the latest Mini-Microsoft Post "Microsoft Layoffs - Cinco de Fire-o"

298 Comments:

  • Nah, nah, nah, nah. Nah, nah, nah, nah. Hey, hey, hey. Goodbye.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 8:07 AM  

  • so its ACTUALLY confirmed !!! some people do have a lot of insights to the MSFT management on this blog.

    best of luck to the guys who get a 'meeting' with their manager's today :-(

    this is truly sad for a company which just has people to boast off for assets.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 8:08 AM  

  • I hear that a number are in SMSG India. Can anyone share any detail?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 8:13 AM  

  • 78 in Germany

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 8:21 AM  

  • The way forward is to SAVE VISTA!

    Facebook group: http://tinyurl.com/c4kwzp

    Post that started it all: http://is.gd/wTLF

    By Blogger David Gerard, at May 5, 2009 at 8:40 AM  

  • No cuts where I sit, today. Then again, we are all based on service contracts.

    Services - Premier

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 8:56 AM  

  • From Steve's mail:
    "As we move forward, we will continue to closely monitor the impact of the economic downturn on the company and if necessary, take further actions on our cost structure including additional job eliminations."

    Does this mean that the count would be 5000++?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:12 AM  

  • 55 heads will roll in SMSG India. HR, LCA & ILT have been in a huddle since saturday.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:14 AM  

  • Does this mean that the count would be 5000++?.

    I read it as "Just in case things get worse, don't hold me to 5000." and "If you survive 5000, don't think you can rest on your laurels. Let fear be a motivator for you. Work until your fingers bleed."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:23 AM  

  • This comment has been removed by the author.

    By Blogger Mini Msft India, at May 5, 2009 at 9:24 AM  

  • This comment has been removed by the author.

    By Blogger Mini Msft India, at May 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM  

  • By Blogger Mini Msft India, at May 5, 2009 at 9:34 AM  

  • Once proof that MiniMSFT is THE place to get REAL, UNWASHED news about MSFT

    SUCK IT LISAB & STEVEB

    MINIMSFT 4 LIFE

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 10:08 AM  

  • Affected group: Office Live localization team.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 11:48 AM  

  • I got laid today. LisaB isn't that good in the rack. Unless you groove on lingerie shorts and a mullet.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 12:08 PM  

  • How many are from IDC and MSIT (India)?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM  

  • hmm, one is official layoffs, the other the re-orgs that are common practice and for HR represent just "normal fluctuation"...

    and not to mention employees that were/are "politely forced to quit"...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 12:27 PM  

  • For those 78 lucky winners in Germany perhaps Microsoft in Slovenia (EU) is an option?

    The subsidiary was nominated "best employer for the 2nd consecutive year": http://www.microsoft.com/emea/presscentre/pressreleases/Zlata_060409.mspx

    Now that's the REAL WASTE OF €!!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM  

  • E&D was hit again...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 12:41 PM  

  • Hey, at least they finished that employee mall. That beats job security any day huh?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 12:52 PM  

  • Yeah, how many were forced to quit because even though they were good contributors, they wanted a life that encompassed something besides just Microsoft?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 1:43 PM  

  • Entire ResponsePoint team got canned.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 1:43 PM  

  • I left MSFT a while ago, and am better off and happier. MSFT is a depressing place to work: a "has been" company, whose biggest business is extortion from PC manufacturers -- hence the drop in revenue reflecting a similar drop in PC sales. While I worked there, I wasn't proud of the products nor the company culture. Many people at MSFT have only worked in "the monoculture" of MSFT, or at more poorly run companies, and don't know any better. When I quit, I was astounded by the number of people who privately expressed unhappiness but feeling trapped for one reason or another. Moreover, Ballmer's "up or out" mentality drives politics, not excellence -- as well as driving the Peter Principle, where people are promoted to levels of incompetance, which has resulted in the present bloated and not just useless but detrimental middle management. Anyways, to end this cathartic rant, I think Ballmer ought to quit (or be ousted), and someone who's not just a ESFJ cheerleader come in there and clean house and focus on innovation where MSFT is^H^Hwas strong, a la MiniMSFT. Whew. That felt good. Good luck, MSFT, and all my friends and the more intelligent among you (which isn't as many as you pretend, another depressing thing ;-).

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 2:06 PM  

  • Well - 60 layoffs in Ireland. They hope they will be voluntary redundecies but with the economy the way it is it's unlikely you'll get many willing can--eees. Just have to sit and wait to see if there are some lemmings to jump off the cliff first...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 2:53 PM  

  • I also heard 60 in Ireland and 30 in Reno.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 3:19 PM  

  • Rapt, AdManager, Massive and Atlas Enterprise teams are part of layoff.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 3:24 PM  

  • "Yeah, how many were forced to quit because even though they were good contributors, they wanted a life that encompassed something besides just Microsoft?"

    Chris almighty, you people never stop. Microsoft is filled with 9-5ers one day, filled with people pressured to surrender their entire lives the next day.

    Make up your fucking minds for fucksakes.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 3:30 PM  

  • CMG has significant cuts including some strong people with many years of tenure. Sad day but probably unavoidable given the maveoeconomic climate. Steven is far from infallable (who is?) but it is not his fault that the economy went to hell.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 4:01 PM  

  • I was laid off today - or rather my position eliminated - worldwide public sector, Redmond.

    I worked 9 years at Microsoft across a number of challenging roles. I was a top performer for all of it, gold stars, etc. At the end of it, this layoff experience is beyond dissapointing. I agree with many of the negative comments and observations made of MSFT.

    At the end of the day, I really loved my work, if I didn't, I changed it. However, this abrupt ending, with no warning or opportunity to transition helps me decide what I will do next. I will never work for Microsoft again - I will never blindly support a Microsoft technology / policy agenda. I will rise above this, and I will become Microsoft's harshest critic. I will go back to my Macintosh and my Linux box happily.

    So this to Microsoft: I am not bitter - I am realistic. I know your dysfunctions well. I will never put myself back into an environment with so many smart talking, stupid people again. And, thank you very much for the wonderful severance on which I can create my new life. I secretly hoped for this on some level.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 4:54 PM  

  • I was laid off in the first pass. It was frightening but has turned out to be a blessing. I took advantage of the career planning from DBM and it was awesome. I highly recommend taking advantage of the resources.
    I start my new job next Monday. Networking is the best way to find a new job. After submitting 300 resume's, I had someone email me from LinkedIn and were looking for an employee. Keep adding to your talents and believe in yourself. This too will pass. :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 5:16 PM  

  • Today was a great example of Microsoft's most mediocre gathering themselves into a tighter huddle of incompetence.

    Today I personally witnessed an incompetent Director saving his buddies ( that he worked with before msft), who have not accomplished anything worth noting, and pushing out real performers. Blatantly obvious in what he did. Do you think it raised an eyebrow anywhere. Nope. The gal he's reporting to is doing the same thing.

    The comments about the politically competent rising to incompetency at Microsoft are absolutely true. Its really sad. The culture at MS rewards those who throw others under the bus. No wonder MS hasn't produced anything exciting since....hmmmm...uhhh...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 6:39 PM  

  • Today my manager learned that her job has ended. She is one of the most abusive and mentally imbalanced managers I have ever had in 25 years of work.

    Also, she wanted to fire *me,* and now the tables have turned.

    I am sorry for most of the people who are now facing unemployment in a particularly competitive market. But in this case, karma delivered.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 6:43 PM  

  • I too was one of the original 1400, with over 15 years of service. Like everyone else I was told my job was "eliminated". I was shown charts that was supposed to demonstrate that this was done across all demograpics.

    What it really says is that Microsoft does not value seniority or loyalty. If MSFT had any balls they would say outright that while, yes, you might be layed off today we'll do what we can to place you back at MSFT because your contribution was valued.

    I'm guessing we're all part of a blacklist, and there will be a stigma associated with being layed off without being properly placed elsewhere at one of the numerous open positions. It's both frustrating and infuriating that while these layoffs occur they practically shout, "but we're still hiring!"

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 7:03 PM  

  • I'm all for a lean and mean Microsoft India.

    After hearing the sad family impacts( laid off employee's father died due to health insurance mess up due to the sudden termination, pregnant wive got miscarriaged due to shock of the news about termination) of some of the employees who were terminated in the last 2 weeks here in MS IT India, I'm strongly inclined to go, take a communist way of fight, get a decent severance package atleast.
    I want Microsoft to be successful, but not at the cost of employee's lives.
    I know if there's no political intervnetion, leave giving the job back, we may not even interested to give additional paise as severance.
    Before questioning my integrity and passion for the company,please do your due diligence whether we have given advance notices and enough severance to all those who were asked to move before?

    All of their stories are very terrible and those guys are not even picking up any of the phones from their old MS colleagues. They hate MS to the core.

    The popularity game played a role in the past layoffs, not complete meritocracy. If we have adpated some real good metrics, we should lay off some of the big heads who were part of the big 'expansion' mess up.
    Accountability ?


    I'm sure that they we would not end up repeating such mistakes when we have the fear of public intervention, atleast let us try it make simple and straight ( 2 months notice, decent severance, no threat for signing the agreement,providing medical insurance for 2 more months, etc)for all of the employee's whoever getting impacted in this wave 2.

    Expecting some big head should also role down along with shop floor employees..

    By Blogger Mini Msft India, at May 5, 2009 at 7:13 PM  

  • this isn't nearly as interesting as F*&ked Company dot com...Name names, stir it up - it's not like you have to be afraid of being tracked via IM any more.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 7:18 PM  

  • some layoffs today in STB-devdiv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM  

  • Mini Msft India, you're a shining example of why the whole of Microsoft India should be shut down:

    * Complete lack of originality. Couldn't you have done better than "Mini Msft" ?

    * Incoherence. Just like the Help Desk, any Indian document, or any Indian UI.

    * Ranting about discrimination and personal grievances. Just like any Indian when everything doesn't go their way.

    I suppose I'll end up working for you one day :(

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 8:53 PM  

  • MSIT was affected -- at least 10 people I know of with varying degrees of tenure (5 yrs --> over 20). Some were surprises -- others I'll be honest and admit I didn't know. I am still digesting the package, but am looking at this as an opportunity. Good luck to all affected.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:02 PM  

  • FWIW - no FTE positions eliminated in windows server this round.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:04 PM  

  • FWIW - no FTE positions eliminated in windows server this round.

    Thanks for catching that oversight. We'll incorporate you folks into the RIF plan next time around.

    Signed,

    Steve and Lisa

    P.S. Keep up the good work.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:09 PM  

  • What the hell is/was ResponsePoint?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:10 PM  

  • I'm sure it's not an oversight, we just need to get past RTM ;)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM  

  • this isn't nearly as interesting as F*&ked Company dot com...Name names, stir it up - it's not like you have to be afraid of being tracked via IM any more.You're sorta late to the party. Fuckedcompany is... sorta fucked.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM  

  • what is the severance package?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 9:46 PM  

  • And is the severance package based on length of employment?

    The Seattle Times article said that employees must be given 60 days notice; I assume that 60 days severance can be substituted.

    Could someone who was let go answer this?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 10:03 PM  

  • Okay, I'll answer the layoff package question... Here in the US, due to the federal WARN act, they cannot layoff a bunch of people without 60 days notice. MSFT skirts that issue by just paying you for 60 more days which takes the affected people to July 4th (notice that today + 60 days = the end of the FY). So, technically we are still employees until the end of the FY. After that, the severance package kicks in.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 10:19 PM  

  • Some folks were laid off in our big group in SVC. It was a surpise because none of the buttom 10% was laid off! What the heck is going on?!?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 11:00 PM  

  • soundbyte from a group in MSIT - 20 of 200 - mostly 10%ers but also some surprises have been eliminated, Criteria not specified or discussed, seniority does seem to be taken into account looks like all "nice to have" teams are being shown the door (which is not bad)but we are also losing some good talent (and quite a few mediocere people will get thier next pay check :()

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 11:16 PM  

  • For those impacted in APAC, check this out: you have to sign the severance disclaimer which says that you are to return all monies in the event that you (stupidly) get another job in the company or group within 1 year. WoW! First they screw with your emotions of being let go, and then tell you that you owe them if someone else hires you in a few months time. MS HR never ceases to amaze!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 11:18 PM  

  • "you have to sign the severance disclaimer which says that you are to return all monies"

    well to me it happened they put the very same clause in the contract that offered the full package - and that was nothing mor nor less that what I'd get by local labour laws

    - in addition to that HR tried to convince me to resing inorder to get hold of full package claiming "this is a very generous offer"

    it was also clearly "suggested" if I don't sign someone is going to use all his/hers powers to make sure I don't find a job on a local market!!!
    No this was not my direct managment but M$ HR pupetiered by subsidiary managment in desperate need to reduce headcounts due their wrong decisions and forecasts.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 5, 2009 at 11:54 PM  

  • For the moment, I've kept my job at MSFT and I'm grateful and feeling guilty. What bothers me is that I don't know why, I don't know what criteria or formula was applied to decide who stays and who goes. Reading all these posts it seems like the cuts were arbitrary and not at all stategic or smart. I don't feel like the quality of my work or efforts helped me escape the cuts. So what are we working towards here? What the hell do they want from us and if that isn't defined then none of us are safe and we will continue to operate (ineffectively) in a culture of fear. It's twisted and stupid. And yet, I'm still here because I have nowhere else to go. It's sad.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 12:48 AM  

  • Situation in Dublin: 60 roles across Microsoft in Ireland, 43 within EOC, 9 within EDC and 8 within SMSG.
    We haven't lost our job. Our positions were put "at risk".
    And it's not until July, mid-August when we're definitely gone.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 1:40 AM  

  • "For the moment, I've kept my job at MSFT and I'm grateful and feeling guilty. What bothers me is that I don't know why, I don't know what criteria or formula was applied to decide who stays and who goes. Reading all these posts it seems like the cuts were arbitrary and not at all stategic or smart. I don't feel like the quality of my work or efforts helped me escape the cuts. So what are we working towards here? What the hell do they want from us and if that isn't defined then none of us are safe and we will continue to operate (ineffectively) in a culture of fear. It's twisted and stupid. And yet, I'm still here because I have nowhere else to go. It's sad."

    Jesus Christ get over yourself, it's a job. You're all acting like your Mother is about to bite it.

    Jobs suck, corporate life sucks, executives are rapacious assholes and the collective lot of the greedy fuckers drove this economy into the shitter. They have never cared about you, they will never care about you and you will *always* be at their whim because you're working for The Man.

    Man-up, grow a pair and reclaim your dignity. If you go, you go, and you'll find something else. Just please, for the love of Christ, stop the grieving.

    Blech.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 2:17 AM  

  • "For those impacted in APAC, check this out: you have to sign the severance disclaimer which says that you are to return all monies in the event that you (stupidly) get another job in the company or group within 1 year. WoW! First they screw with your emotions of being let go, and then tell you that you owe them if someone else hires you in a few months time. MS HR never ceases to amaze!"This is a standard agreement, so shut your dirty hole.

    When you've been laid off from a few more places you'll understand that MS is pretty fucking generous.

    WHINE WHINE WHINE.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 2:20 AM  

  • When you've been laid off from a few more places you'll understand that MS is pretty (expletive) generous.MS has to give 60 days notice of a layoff. There's little generous about these decisions.

    1) They have to tell people at least 60 days in advance that they're gone.
    2) They don't really want people who've been laid off working those last 60 days because the damage from IP theft/corporate resource misuse/continuous morale killers are much higher.

    Microsoft is doing a great job of making itself look generous, but it is still looking out for itself.

    (No one in COSD knows anything about our fates, so don't ask me if I'm fired or not now or post Win7 or what)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 3:46 AM  

  • Today my manager learned that her job has ended. She is one of the most abusive and mentally imbalanced managers I have ever had in 25 years of work.

    Also, she wanted to fire *me,* and now the tables have turned.
    Thank you for the smile. It's nice to know that SOMETIMES these people reap what they sow. Go have a beer with some teammates this week to celebrate.

    Mine was also one of the (nah, really the) most abusive and mentally imbalanced managers I'd had in 25 years of work. The lack of emotion she displayed when tearing people on her staff or on partner teams down wreaked of a heavy Prozac prescription or of some pathological disorder. People RAN off her teams like nobody's business, and still talk of the hellish experience they had working for her 5-10 years later.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 4:36 AM  

  • She is one of the most abusive and mentally imbalanced managers and
    Mine was also one of the (nah, really the) most abusive and mentally imbalanced managers Any chance this person's name would start with G? I can't believe there'd be anyone worse.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 4:44 AM  

  • To the person who smiled at what I wrote: So happy to provide a little levity.

    The menopausal psycho of which I spoke (the one who got her just desserts yesterday) does not have a name starting with G. It's closer to the end of the alphabet, but if her initials were "F.C.," it would certainly be apt.

    Her unwarranted ugly outbursts and frequent rants against colleagues (usually other women) seemed to indicate that she *should* have been medicated. Either that, or her doctor should have upped the dose of whatever she was on.

    A former team member put it well by saying that when she gets into her dark moods, it's impossible to reason with her, and that the only way to placate her is to make soothing sounds and back away slowly.

    Apparently, doing anything different (such as trying to defend onself against a steady stream of rudeness and reprimands) leads to dismissal. And since she managed vendors and not FTEs, it was quite easy for her to simply make a phone call to -- based purely on her own delusions and insecurities -- send people who reported to her to the unemployment line.

    When I found out she got s**t-canned, I was thrilled, and stunned. Very seldom in life do justice and karma have co-exist so perfectly. I will definitely be toasting with champagne in her *honor* (as it were) this weekend.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 6:11 AM  

  • I talked to George Carlin and Andy Rooney, and here's what they had to say.

    1. "Do more with less". I always loved this one. You don't get more from less. You get less from less. Jesus Christ got more from less. When He comes back, hire Him. Until then, take this "more from less" crap and shove it.

    2. "Work smarter, not harder". Did you wake up smarter this morning? Me either. What this really means is "Congratulations! You get to keep your job, and all their jobs too!". Take this "work smarter" crap and pound it.

    3. "We did this to enhance shareholder value". You say this because you think we'll think, wow, this must have to do with complicated things we can't possibly understand like P&E ratios and leveraged mortgage
    securities derivatives. We know what it means. It means "We did this so some asshole can keep flying his corporate jet to Aspen". Take your enhanced shareholder value and spin on it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 6:38 AM  

  • SMSG India started off with the layoff process since today morning with a brief meeting with manager and HR and then manager escorting the person out of the premise. No time given to even bid farewell to your colleagues.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 8:18 AM  

  • "a brief meeting with manager and HR and then manager escorting the person"
    This is a typical scenario of microsoft layoff. And if you are fired because of performance issue they will not give you any severance either. As a gentleman I would give my manager more than one month notice before quitting the job. But what they did they fired me within half an hour no severance, no notice. And also escorting to the door was quite inhumane.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:59 AM  

  • Apparently, those laid off can still use their corporate email accts. to say their goodbyes to colleagues. At least for now.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 10:28 AM  

  • Compared to my previous layoff, this one was quite humane with a better "departure" package. I have card access until Fri., and stayed in the office yesterday working on my resume. It still sucks, and no one on my team can figure out what the criteria was. MSN was hit pretty hard, including the profitable groups.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM  

  • "I will rise above this, and I will become Microsoft's harshest critic. I will go back to my Macintosh and my Linux box happily."

    Yeah that's really rising above it dumbass.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 11:00 AM  

  • Not exactly a correct count but about 65 people pulled from MSIT India today. our assumption is that this will continue till the end of the week. all togather 150-170 to be expected from MSIT India.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM  

  • The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly:

    Good: I think Microsoft has a bright future as a company, even if things are somewhat depressing right now.

    Bad: All politics, all the time at MSFT. I was laid off in January while a number of people with much less knowledge and talent stayed on - oh wait, those were H-1B visa holders, and pretty women too. That's why they stayed, I guess.

    Ugly:
    I was systematically denied leadership opportunities and denied credit when I went ahead and did what needed to be done anyway. The stuff that makes people look good? Those opportunities were handed out to the H-1Bs and pretty women. This could be another lawsuit waiting to happen.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 11:41 AM  

  • The rest of this week is a great time to stay home with "the flu". Do what I've been doing the last couple days - work on not just your professional network, but your personal network. Talk with your spouse, your friends, your family. Spell out the worst that can happen - how much emergency cash and credit you have, what you sell off in what order, at what point would you sell your car or house, or move to another region. How long you would take time off before working on resume and job hunting full time.

    Have all these conversations about how you'd feel and what you'd do, while you're still employed, so that you're not talking about it for the first time under huge stress.

    Then, get a good night's sleep, go to work, and work your ass off. Even if it's not going to be rewarded here, it could be part of what gets you your next job.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 12:43 PM  

  • I wonder what would happen if the Redmond blue badges all decided to just stay home for a couple days, all at once, no email, no phone, no OOF message, no nothing?

    Would it be noticed?

    Would it show how much work actually gets done by the vendors and contractors?

    Would projects grind to a halt when teams in India and China suddenly didn't have anyone to answer their questions?

    Is there a way to make it feel just as random and unexplained as all the decisions about the layoffs have been?

    Yeah, I'm being petty and immature. I know it wouldn't accomplish anything, and it's overblowing things to try to compare to "a day without a mexican" or "blue flu" sorts of labour protests. But still.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 12:52 PM  

  • If all the blue badges didn't show up for one day, the vendors and contractors would continue to do all the work, and the backstabbing portion of the blue badges would foil you by showing up to claim credit for it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 1:18 PM  

  • "Ugly:
    I was systematically denied leadership opportunities and denied credit when I went ahead and did what needed to be done anyway. The stuff that makes people look good? Those opportunities were handed out to the H-1Bs and pretty women. This could be another lawsuit waiting to happen."


    This story is only "Ugly" because it shows you to be a loser looking to blame your lack of success on any scapegoat you can find.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 3:12 PM  

  • Being laid off sucks. You will go through a grief cycle.
    Immobile, denial, anger, barganing, depression, testing, and acceptance.
    If you have 18 years like I did, you get a good severance package.

    The classes at DBM career center in Totem Lake are very valuable. They helped me get on with my life. Helped me network, write a resume, and find a job. Life does go on after Microsoft. Believe in yourself and move on. :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 3:30 PM  

  • Just curious: What's included in the severance package for someone with 18 years' time at MS?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM  

  • 35 weeks of salary and medical and some much needed time off. :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 3:50 PM  

  • I'd really like to know what the severance package is once and for all so that I'll know what's coming if this happens to me. What I've heard is 60 days of regular pay + health (as someone already said), plus a cash out based on a) tenure and b) position within the company. Something like a week's pay for every month worked? That seems like way too much so I don't think that's exactly right, but would like to know. Mental preparation is a Good Thing.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 3:58 PM  

  • Some newswires are reporting that some of the layoffs were due to "financial problems in MSIT." Has anyone else heard of anything like that?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 4:06 PM  

  • Check out HRWeb it has a FAQ on the severence package:

    For the RIFs announced on May 5, 2009, Microsoft’s U.S. Severance Benefits package may include:

    - A minimum of 60 days pay
    Severance pay based on an individual’s level and service with the company. Employees at levels 64 and below may be offered one week of pay for every six months of service and employees at levels 65 and above may be offered two weeks of pay for every six months of service. The maximum payment is 39 weeks.

    - Transition Services that focus on outplacement assistance, resume development, and networking

    - A lump sum payment to assist with the cost of continuing healthcare coverage for the severance pay period

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 4:07 PM  

  • "The classes at DBM career center in Totem Lake are very valuable."

    And they're worthless if you don't work in Redmond, much like many company "benefits."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 4:41 PM  

  • Does anyone know what groups in MSN got hit? I left at the beginning of 2005 and have not regreted leaving, except for some of the people I use to work with. Good Karma would be if D. Patel was one of the ones let go.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM  

  • *Sob*sob* I don't work in Redmond *sob* Somebody call the waaaaaambulance


    People, Microsoft is headquartered in Redmond and employs about half of its workforce in the Puget Sound area.


    Was it really a surprise to find out that the culture is Redmond centric, including the benefits?


    Do Google employees in Kirkand bitch like this too?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 6:13 PM  

  • I don't know which MSN groups got hit but have heard bits and pieces enough to know it was widespread. I've heard lots of things but I can SEE that some who needed to have that conversation are still here f-ing up everything, even today, the day after. To the whiners ..... I'm a relative new hire but I believe in MSFT as an innovative company that will be successful for years to come. I do my best work every day (I'm a dev) and learn more new things every day. I get more than a paycheck. Sure I work with some a-holes but I work with more REALLY good people and we do really good work. If you know what 3-2-1 means, you recognize it as a good idea if we could just get some PMs that knew the difference between a web server and a web service. As long as they're the brains behind our products, we're f-ed. Meanwhile, MSN is finally adopting something after server 2003 and 32-bit programming (gasp - Server 2008, SQL Server 2008-64-bit, Precompiled Xslt, wow ) so i guess better late than never.

    Look at things that come out of dev div, look at how things integrate pretty well with each other, compare results from live search vs. gooogle and you can see some really good things here still. Just hoping they don't track this back to me now.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 6:17 PM  

  • Back again. I wrote the post that replied to the one about the manager getting her just desserts.

    Someone asked their initials and the reply was:
    The menopausal psycho of which I spoke (the one who got her just desserts yesterday) does not have a name starting with G. It's closer to the end of the alphabet,When you said it was more toward the end of the alphabet, and "menopausal", I had high hopes that it was my former manager, but then you said that she only managed vendors. Mine had some FTE reports as well as vendors. Drat. Ratzenfratzen drat.

    Except for that, the description appears mighteee familiar. If you had the kind of experience under her that I had under my similar manager, yes, you're right, it would be time for champagne, not beer, and a round of "do you remember the time she got away with ABC?" stories.

    Corporate America, gotta love it. I've seen bad managers in large companies before, but hadn't seen such a reluctance to swap them out for better ones or at least promote them to advisory positions with no reports so they could do less harm. You know the type I mean. The type that have a nice office and they send fluffy emails, but you have no idea what they actually do and can't find anyone else who knows what they do either. Generally, they've been around for years, or are some important person's brother.

    Ineffective managers are one thing, and that's not what I'm referring to. Those seem to be a necessary evil in large companies (as immortalized by Dilbert), and it doesn't take much experience for staff to learn how to work around them, politely remaining silent about what the manager does not do to assist them, because they realize at least he's not actively in their way and lets them get tasks done.

    My baseline criteria: shield me from BS that hinders my ability to complete tasks you need me to do, and I'll consider a manager decent enough. The good managers are the ones that help me advance in one way or another and can come up with resources that make work easier. Many managers are not good, but are still acceptable. Most managers I've had mmeet the "acceptable" bar, and a few meet the "good" bar.

    And then there are the ones who are habitually destructive to teams, individuals' careers and products. Microsoft has more of them than other high techs or services firms I've worked for, creating unnecessary diversions from goals, moving things in directions that don't benefit customers, and causing a drain on expertise as people abandon ship to avoid the individual in question.

    I think the reluctance to replace them is due to the historical difficulty of getting people to switch from technical track to people manager track at Microsoft. My hunch is that this is not the difficulty today that it once was, as people look for stability and work life balance in Microsoft careers spanning more than 5-10 years. Therefore the reluctance to replace managers at will might be useful for MS leadership to re-examine in light of the changing demographics of their workforce and changing length of Microsoft careers. The company is no longer a "5 or 10 years and you retire a millionaire" place, and with that, career goals change.

    Instead of considering poorly performing IC's to be the easily replaceable parts, I propose that it's a bad manager that is more effectively and easily replaced. And Microsoft leadership may still be too caught up in how it used to work, to see that.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 6:20 PM  

  • The miserable person I know who lost her job had 10.5 years at MS. Based on the //hrweb info, she may have just received a nine-month paid vacation. Seems like a generous package to me.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 6:26 PM  

  • Just curious: What's included in the severance package for someone with 18 years' time at MS?

    I would say nothing ... its people like you who have created this monster.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 6:45 PM  

  • Not everyone who was or is at MS is part of the problem. This person who was released after 18 years may have been a hard worker who treated his/her colleagues with kindness and respect, and not one of the loathesome specimens described in other posts. So let's give him/her a break.

    What I'm wondering is this: Are people who are laid off stigmatized when they go to look for another job - whether at MS or elsewhere? Or do potential employers view them simply as victims of tough economic times?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM  

  • What I don't get is how five high-performing employees, myself among them, were let go yesterday and their destructive manager was left standing. How is it possible that a manager with a bad track record in our and another group is kept on to do more damage?

    My colleagues and I all asked how the layoff decisions were made, and nobody would explain the reasoning. That's not to say our group cost more money than it reasonably should have, but how come nobody with any authority is looking at the manager who created the situation?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 8:17 PM  

  • "Was it really a surprise to find out that the culture is Redmond centric, including the benefits?"


    Do Google employees in Kirkand bitch like this too?


    Oh yes, they sure as shit do. There is a MAMMOTH second-class citizen thing going on in Kirkland...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 8:33 PM  

  • sadly no partners appear to be posting to this blog, or maybe some of these questions would have answers.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 8:52 PM  

  • if selections appear random then perhaps they are. couldn't it be that individuals in positions above your director made the selections while looking at an org chart consisting of titles and levels? these people don't know your name let alone your performance review or your personal circumstances.

    which is exactly the point. no way to point to a formula that discriminated against or favored any particular group.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 8:58 PM  

  • I used to work in a division of MSIT (that rhymes with RXD), and it had a $100+ M annual budget.

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    With that kind of money to waste, there's no chance you're going to succeed.

    Lucky me, I saw that what we were "producing" wasn't worth half what we were spending, and I found greener pastures. Most of the people I worked with in RXD were eliminated yesterday.

    Suckers!

    Sorry, I miss you guys, too.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:02 PM  

  • A guy I know who was a total stud dev was eliminated yesterday. He'd been there 10 years, exhibited nothing but loyalty, and always delivered. BUT, he also had caused some harassment issues at morale events involving liquor. Just sayin, you never know.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:07 PM  

  • "I think the reluctance to replace them is due to the historical difficulty of getting people to switch from technical track to people manager track at Microsoft. My hunch is that this is not the difficulty today that it once was, as people look for stability and work life balance in Microsoft careers spanning more than 5-10 years. "


    People do not become managers of people in order to look for work-life balance. If you're on any kind of career track to partner or VP or whichever, your work is your life, period. You're online all the time, you can do meetings at 6 or 7 at night at the drop of a hat, etc. Well, "work" in this case can include politics and schmoozing and networking as well as real work. But still. No manager, good or bad, can just put in 40 hours or less and last long.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:12 PM  

  • How long before someone snaps?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:12 PM  

  • Bad: All politics, all the time at MSFT. I was laid off in January while a number of people with much less knowledge and talent stayed on - oh wait, those were H-1B visa holders, and pretty women too. That's why they stayed, I guess.In any world glamour has more competence than talent. In my team there is a girl. She is one of the most incompetent msftie as I have seen. But always getting good favor from my manager and skip.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:14 PM  

  • how long?

    Funny you should ask. For some reason, the newly disgruntled have building access until EOW. If I see one of them in the office this week, I'm ducking under the nearest desk!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:16 PM  

  • They laid off a lot of hot women in RedWest yesterday. I fear there are none left.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:22 PM  

  • "In any world glamour has more competence than talent. In my team there is a girl. She is one of the most incompetent msftie as I have seen. But always getting good favor from my manager and skip."

    I swear by all that's holy you people are all retarded and deserve to be jobless and begging.

    Please tell me you're not here being butthurt over WOMEN having the advantage in the tech industry? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

    So we've had the guest workers and the bitches. WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING CRIPPLES? GODDAMN WHEELCHAIRS ALWAYS GET PROMOTED!

    If I see one more "disabled" person using their lack of legs as a tool to beat me out for a promotion, why... why... why I'm going to punch them in the throat!

    You're all pathetic. PATHETIC.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:23 PM  

  • They laid off a lot of hot women in RedWest yesterday. I fear there are none left.

    Come one dude. I feel pity for you.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:33 PM  

  • They laid off a lot of hot women in RedWest yesterday

    So does that mean that they were token employments or that, because they were hot, they were overpaid and had to go?

    To the throat punching guy (or girl) - you forgot the blacks, the hispanics, the in-laws, the siblings, and all the other excuses.

    Seriously though - it is nice to see the softies rising to the occassion in difficult times. Stay classy Microsoft.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:52 PM  

  • yea seriously this could be bad for our image or something

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 9:54 PM  

  • They laid off a lot of hot women in RedWest yesterday. I fear there are none left.

    I remember back during the dot-com bust, Pud over at F*ckedCompany started dealing on the side in (mostly) soft porn with "Laid Off Marketing Hotties" or something like that.

    Playboy had a "Women of Enron" issue as well.

    Anybody with an entrepreneurial bent see where I'm going with this?

    "I Wanna Drive a Pink Cadillac, Wear Diamond Rings, and Kick the Laid-Off Women of Microsoft in the Butt."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 10:34 PM  

  • The blood bath seems to have happened in India with over 100 positions eliminated of Hyderabad and more than 10-15 in a single day from SMSG India (North).More likely to follow. All the best to those who still are in...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 10:58 PM  

  • over 100 positions eliminated of Hyderabad and more than 10-15 in a single day from SMSG India (North).

    Yeah, but how many of them were hot women? C'mon, Sanjay, give us the crucial details!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM  

  • 100 out of 1B? you'll be fine

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 6, 2009 at 11:58 PM  

  • Yea, it's not like you're Pakistan. You'll be fine. We'll all be just fine. Jackass!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 12:02 AM  

  • It really is a pity if they laid of a bunch of hot women, since there are already so few around here to begin with.

    Me, I think the only reason I was spared on Tuesday was because I'm tall, handsome and muscular, built like an NFL QB. And we all know there aren't very many of those around amongst the male populace at MS.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 12:46 AM  

  • As a "red-blooded" single woman, I always say that the largely repellant (both hygienically and socially challenged) male populace of MS makes it very easy to focus on work.

    Sure, good-looking men and women get treated better in life. So why not in the workplace too? This is hardly a news flash.

    Re the alleged big batch o' honeys that were let go at Red West: If true, this is probably a matter of odds, since the types of groups at Red West (MSN, Live Search, and other marketing-type teams) tend to attract people who are more likely to be pleasant in appearance.

    Again, this should be neither eye-opening information or offensive to anyone. It's simply a fact -- just as true as the notion that if you're hiring for MS Sales, you want men and women whose charm and appearance will enhance the perceived value and allure of the products being sold.

    Having said all that, occasionally plain people whose worth is measured on job performance do catch a break. And sometimes the beautiful ones whose twinkly smiles fail to impress lose their jobs.

    To put too much stock in whether or not you or someone else is still employed because of looks smacks of desperation and excuse-making. Life ain't fair, folks. And hiring and firing is certainly an inexact science.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 1:01 AM  

  • Microsoft Fires 60 people in India.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 7:28 AM  

  • And then there is this dev lead an indian bitch - initials BS - i dont know what she thinks of herself .. but its time technology gets rid of useless girls like those, she doesnt look that good either, but she does sleep around though she is married. I hate having lost red west girls but they deserved that .. well done microsoft.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 8:20 AM  

  • "And then there is this dev lead an indian bitch - initials BS - i dont know what she thinks of herself .. but its time technology gets rid of useless girls like those, she doesnt look that good either, but she does sleep around though she is married. I hate having lost red west girls but they deserved that .. well done microsoft."

    You're fat and have a tiny cock, right?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 8:54 AM  

  • "You're fat and have a tiny cock, right?"

    Not to be confused with LisaB, who is fat and hung like a horse.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM  

  • Look in the Philippines - you get 3 months for every year of work and it's all voluntary.

    I guess alot of guys in the US would have appreciated a similiar package..

    http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0%2c39044164%2c62053857%2c00.htm

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 1:30 PM  

  • I had 14 managers in 10 years as a blue badge. After quitting in late '99 (by pure luck -- I quit to escape a psycho mgr) I pondered and realized that 12 of the 14 were narcisstic a**holes and the other 2 merely RIP'd incompetent nitwits.

    And soon had a revelation that perhaps *I* was the a**hole and needed to change my ways and get a life. Indeed, but that's another story.

    Now I'm not so sure - maybe they really were all a**holes and I'm OK after all.

    I'm still astonished at how pathetically awful so much shipping product still is - no other company in the world would have lasted this long before involuntarily skimming down.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 2:54 PM  

  • "You're fat and have a tiny cock, right?"


    Haha sure not to be confused with LisaB please. any news of anything more in terms of layoffs. Please post here since mini is busy and i guess he will not have a lot of time to moderate .. this is unmoderated and hence it will appear faster.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 3:17 PM  

  • "Look in the Philippines - you get 3 months for every year of work and it's all voluntary."

    Dude, you can get that right here in Redmond. It's called an a- contract :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 3:28 PM  

  • how many non-cvp are on contract?

    unlike Philippines, there is no protection in the US. No 3 month severance pay for every year of service! you only get 2 weeks!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 5:18 PM  

  • 3 months to 2 weeks, what's the ratio? 6 to 1, right? that's probably the ratio of pay difference between US and there.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 8:36 PM  

  • Heard something interesting today. At least one "job-eliminated" person I know will have her email account taken over by her manager after tomorrow. If this is a widespread practice, I'll bet a lot of now-former 'softies are scurrying to delete incriminating messages.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 9:31 PM  

  • The email account will be deleted on Friday. My account was taken by my manager at the time I was notified of layoff. In my case because my account has access to IT infrastructure.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 10:45 PM  

  • Will the email account be deleted, or will an OOF message be generated, telling people whom to contact now that the former employee is gone?

    And how was it decided which *eliminated* people got their laptops taken away on the spot, and which were given a couple of days to remove personal data?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 7, 2009 at 11:45 PM  

  • People with even numbered employee numbers got their laptops taken away. Odd numbers got till Friday to clear their tracks. Prime numbers were promoted to partner.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 6:36 AM  

  • You're all pathetic. PATHETIC.I'm not your OP, but dude:

    Your jacket has blood seeping right through the breast pocket! You should see someone about that bleeding heart!

    (I'm sorry. It's not like you're wrong, you've just managed a post that has that overwhelming stereotypical indignancy about it ...)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 9:05 AM  

  • With departure of Bill Gates it looks like the magic spell of success in Microsoft is going away. We even have a layoffs and almost for no reason. It is quite funny - company makes a layoff, then it starts internal rehiring process although some people do really go away. Some actually almost prefer to take severance payment, which is not bad for senior people. There seems to be almost no reduction in headcount, but layoff create enormous shock in the company. There is anecdotic evidence of change in morale – last year the bridge from Eastside to Seattle was always empty before 4 pm. Now at 4 traffic is already stuck. People go home. Who would work on weekend if you may learn on Monday that your group is closed?
    That what happened to me this Tuesday. I come at 10:10 and find that I just missed a meeting where we were told that all our group is laid off. Conditions that we are given to most laid off people are not too bad – two month on payroll and access to office. If person does not find job internally in 2 month - severance that would for me would be about 3 month of salary. Some long staying employees get severance of up to 9 month. Still layoff creates a very bitter taste.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 9:48 AM  

  • Lisa B in Top 100 Women in Tech.

    http://www.techflash.com/venture/Top_100_Women_in_Seattle_Tech_44225472.html

    Bad timing?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 6:48 PM  

  • A few thoughts not entirely about the layoff but rather the fundamental problems seen from the bottom:

    1. Size - trim-down the company is not the only solution but it is a necessary solution. It is ridiculous to grow from 50,000 from 2004 or 2005 to 94,000 in 2008 when our revenue didn't grow accordingly. If we had spent the hiring money on selective technology, it might be a different story. We don't have to fight every battle. We just need to win the ones we have to win.

    2. Talent vs. Function - do we have the right people for the right positions? Huge questions on the decision making process of director+ positions. I'd suggest reviewing all director level positions and cutting back 10% directors. I just don't believe we need so many directors because they technically cannot make major decisions and do not execute on any of the details.

    3. Productivity - some roles such as account management in online business were so inefficient. Account Manager's roles were split into AM and Sales Planner a few years ago to help someone grow her teams, who happened to be offered a senior position at Amazon after that. In most other companies, these two functions are in one role; well, not among the smart people though. There are AMs who work no more than 3-4 hours a day and are not affected by the layoffs. You have to believe life is not always fair.

    4. Finally, for God's sake, do something with Search - the bottomless money losing hole. Someone just needs to admit the game is over. Acquiring Yahoo! Search is not a solution. We are not going to breakeven in 10 or 15 years. And Yahoo's core value is not in search, but the quality of its content and targeting. Find an exit strategy for search. If advertising has to be on the company growth list, please focus on emerging media platform where the game has not been as clearly defined, so at least we have a fair chance. $1B investment can make us a giant in this field.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 7:05 PM  

  • How much is a gold star bonus? I mean it's over $1M of delivered contribution somehow.... I am guessing it's related somehow to the contribution amount. If I would have to guess between 0.5-1%.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 7:52 PM  

  • "How much is a gold star bonus? I mean it's over $1M of delivered contribution somehow.... I am guessing it's related somehow to the contribution amount. If I would have to guess between 0.5-1%."I've never awarded a gold stars based on dollars of contribution, maybe it's different for sales.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 7:56 PM  

  • Regarding LisaB's inclusion in the "Top 100 Women in Tech" article referenced above -- what a pandering pile of shit that thing is. Not only does the guy talk about how Lisa has won praise for reforming Microsoft's HR policies (LOL, taken directly from a press release as nobody in their right mind would ever actually say such a thing), but that list includes a number of low-level grunts who haven't made any kind of actual contribution to anything.

    Apparently the bar for that list is pretty low.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 8:00 PM  

  • I was fantasizing about how I should have left my cube after I got canned. Thoughts?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 11:24 PM  

  • Once when I got canned, I put a small amount of "homemade liquid" into the water bottle of a prissy, ass-kissing little weasel (a fellow a-) who contributed to my firing. Immature, yes - but I did enjoy doing it. Of course, the weasel is now an FTE and, based on some of his emails, remains a constipated knob of a guy.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 8, 2009 at 11:50 PM  

  • In Korea the Services team is totally wiped clean , they have one or two consultants around.

    In APAC around 75 got whacked...

    But the package offered seems to be good , most of the people i checked were happy..

    Few long timers got upto 2 years salary....

    In Singapore most of the Ops gone and also the Service Line offering , one PFE and couple in Sales , SMSP and EPG.

    Does any one know full details of package in Australia...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 12:29 AM  

  • What a fuckin joke - who evaluates performance of SteveB, KT and Lisa? Looks like the only reason for not laying off bottom 10% is that these 3 would've been gone too. They saved their own ass so that they can lick each other clean. Choke SteveB choke... straight to hell all the 3!!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 2:02 AM  

  • To the friggin manager who managed to lay off 2 non-whites - you racist mofo married to a jap... I hope you lose someone/thing you love.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 2:06 AM  

  • "Does any one know full details of package in Australia..."

    Why are people so obsessed with knowing the fate of other Microsoft employees? If it's a friend, ask him/her directly!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 8:18 AM  

  • Hi,

    Does anyone know if voluntary severance is on the cards for folks other than Microsoft Philippines? For that matter, is anyone aware of cases where someone actually opted for severance and got it?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 1:39 PM  

  • ""Does any one know full details of package in Australia..."

    Why are people so obsessed with knowing the fate of other Microsoft employees? If it's a friend, ask him/her directly!
    +1, all this fwapfwapfwap-ing over the details is dumb.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 2:15 PM  

  • "You're all pathetic. PATHETIC."


    I'm not your OP, but dude:

    Your jacket has blood seeping right through the breast pocket! You should see someone about that bleeding heart!

    (I'm sorry. It's not like you're wrong, you've just managed a post that has that overwhelming stereotypical indignancy about it ...)


    I think you've misunderstood my point.

    My point is that whitey lovvvvvvvvvvves to find scapegoats for all of his burdens -- the bitches, the niggers, the ragheads, the fags, etc. etc. Whitey really needs to look in the mirror and realize that yes indeed, just like the rest of the world, sometimes he doesn't always come out on top.

    But ooooh... whitey gets so pissed off when he finds himself at the same disadvantage that everyone else needs to deal with every day! It's just so -- just so -- UNFAIR! WAHHHHHHH!

    Frankly I don't care about the disadvantaged, as it's a dog-eat-dog world and the only task anyone has in the final analysis is to figure out how to get yourself paid. I just enjoy whitey losing the game and getting butthurt because his privileged status is suddenly in jeopardy from so many different sources... and I like watching him become indignant like a god-given right employment has suddenly been taken away.

    It's fun -- I'd like to see more layoffs, plz. ::thumbs-up::

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 2:21 PM  

  • uh, only at the highest levels is msft a "whitey" kind of place, and they're all safe. down in the mix is where heads are rolling and "whitey" is a minority. your ignorance is amusing at least.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 4:14 PM  

  • As a wise colleague said to me once, "You can love MS as much as u want but it will never love you back

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 6:44 PM  

  • "uh, only at the highest levels is msft a "whitey" kind of place, and they're all safe. down in the mix is where heads are rolling and "whitey" is a minority. your ignorance is amusing at least."

    Yes, cuntknocker, you are correct. I am mocking the whiny whiteys posting here who claim otherwise.

    READ FOR CONTENT PLZ.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 9, 2009 at 7:16 PM  

  • Search is also going through a major re-org. Could this be the calm before the storm for those folks in Bldg 88?

    What will happen after the brand release?

    Anyone cares to take on this one?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 10, 2009 at 4:24 AM  

  • "Search is also going through a major re-org. Could this be the calm before the storm for those folks in Bldg 88?

    What will happen after the brand release?

    Anyone cares to take on this one?"


    *fwapfwapfwapfwap*

    These masturbatory speculation questions are stupid.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 10, 2009 at 9:25 AM  

  • What will happen after the brand release?

    Anyone cares to take on this one?


    A bunch of pseudo-journalists will write stories about it, a bunch of civilians will comment on those stories to the effect of "Microsoft sucks, Google rocks, Linux will soon rule the world," and there will be a bunch of Microsofties whining about it from one angle or another on a minimsft post.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 10, 2009 at 10:11 PM  

  • Figure says 55 in India, but it is more than that. Most of the people laid off(resource optimized) are from MSIT India at least a 100 of them. It was bad last week as people were escorted to the cabs waiting outside the main building after being asked to leave. The only good thing is the severance package that was offered.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 11, 2009 at 9:44 AM  

  • 10 in Reno and 27 in Mt. View. So much for job stablity. It's a crying shame when MS needs to layoff, especially with our capital assets, (or did i say asses)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 11, 2009 at 11:26 AM  

  • Another newly RIF'd here ...

    Where are folks finding the best laptop deals? I'm guessing many are in the same boat as I, looking for new gear to replace your work laptop.

    Been looking for best bang for the buck for laptops for under $700 (already got vista and office from company store before I left, so that I'll have ready).

    So far, best buy deals are best I'm finding. Went To PCRecycle and they didn't have much...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 11, 2009 at 11:57 AM  

  • Another newly RIF'd here ...

    I went to MicrosoftPrime and picked up an open box Sony at Tech-for-less for 42% off. Have had it for a few days is working fine.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 11, 2009 at 12:05 PM  

  • not fair, completely forced resignations and disengagement termsBlunt 200 RIFs

    By Blogger Mini Msft India, at May 11, 2009 at 12:28 PM  

  • 9 in charlotte PSS

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM  

  • OK, that Mini Msft India post linked to just above does have an interesting tidbit:


    Mon(k)ey Boy Ballmer meeting all employees tomorrow 13 May Noon in Hyd Campus
    People have volley of questions about their future in stake. Some daring guys are planning to ask about Steve's last day plans with Microsoft and it's due date.


    Be sure to let us know how that pans out. Video footage doubly welcome.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 12, 2009 at 12:25 AM  

  • By Blogger Mini Msft India, at May 12, 2009 at 10:20 AM  

  • I have very good relationships with my colleagues but, today, they have all gone dark. Does anyone know of any memos sent out telling people not to contact those who were RIF'd?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 12, 2009 at 4:30 PM  

  • If you are in Puget Sound, read this, and tell your friends.

    http://recessioncamp.squarespace.com/

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 12, 2009 at 4:32 PM  

  • " Anonymous said...
    I have very good relationships with my colleagues but, today, they have all gone dark. Does anyone know of any memos sent out telling people not to contact those who were RIF'd?

    4:30 PM "


    I'm one among the RIFs od 6'May
    People try to save their own ass before helping others, they know that they're also under the radar.
    But people does not know that talking, helping to those old colleagues can help them boost their morale and take them long way. This is how MS cultured selfish ass holes behave when you are thrown out in a day.

    If there are colleagues of your team got impacted, it is high time you call and talk to them. Do not worry that they will be in sorrow, but this sympathy call will create an empathy inside them.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 12, 2009 at 6:47 PM  

  • Hi from IDC,
    MS IT post by mini-microsoft-india seems to be hitting every group over there. Do not whether Lisa has time for mini and this new Indian Mini these days, she's already into InsideMS :-) and deep diving.

    GTSC post seem to be a very high pitch for GTSC. Have seen many internal transfers from there, 80% are good as mentioned in this post and pick it up very fast, but 20% suck very badly. But i think this happens with every transfer. I liked Indian mini's admiration about GTSC that they are not bloated like IDC, MS IT,SMSG etc organizations of MS India.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 12, 2009 at 6:58 PM  

  • The one colleague on my team who got canned deserves no sympathy, empathy, or severance package. Just a swift kick in the ass for being such a miserable b**ch and spreading bile and bad morale throughout the team. It's all I can do to keep from sending a "Great news!" card to her house. But I don't think Hallmark makes what I'm looking for.

    I do, however, feel for the decent ex-employees who are now pounding the pavement.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 12, 2009 at 9:02 PM  

  • What's Up in keeping canned folks in headtrax?

    Does MSFT management has something to hide in clamping down the details.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 13, 2009 at 12:14 PM  

  • My former manager from hell is still in the Global Address Book. Hopefully not for long.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 13, 2009 at 3:25 PM  

  • who is BVV. why did he become so popular. Does he have any other work ? Looks like he has posted his support argument on mini. my point is that looks like he is not smart, though he says he is, i wonder what he does for long hours, doest he say that he is fast thinker and smart ??? To me everyone who wastes time posting to forums, every day with long replies, should be fired. it shows that the manager is not giving work ... i would say the manager should also be fired ...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 13, 2009 at 10:04 PM  

  • Mini Msft India wrote some detailed post about GTSC, MS IT & SMSG

    Check outMini Msft IndiaWhat is happening in MS IT Redmond and other groups across Corp, no news,numbers, heads, etc ?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 14, 2009 at 12:52 AM  

  • oh mini msft india - why can't you be original? Dare I say that this is typical of what the influx of indian workers has brought - bloated organisations filled with family members, mafioso style control, all just BS about work and virtually no delivery. If you believe what you say on your blog - get your readers to resign and then do so yourself. But whatever you decide please stop the drivel! And no, I don't work for MSFT.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 14, 2009 at 6:18 AM  

  • Subscribe to invclub and read for a day or two - it will be pretty obvious who BVV is. Athough I think he got a wind of what was going on here and toned it down a lot.
    With SS gone in the previous round and BVV hopefully starting to focus on his work, he just need BH to shut up as well and the traffic there will go down in half.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 14, 2009 at 8:56 AM  

  • how many people in marketing got cut?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 14, 2009 at 3:39 PM  

  • Subscribe to invclub and read for a day or two - it will be pretty obvious who BVV is. Athough I think he got a wind of what was going on here and toned it down a lot.
    With SS gone in the previous round and BVV hopefully starting to focus on his work, he just need BH to shut up as well and the traffic there will go down in half.
    Hahaha, looks like the 3 evil men of the apocoloypse are quite famous indeed.

    BVV - Thinks he's too smart, each post is like a term paper, spends a lot of time on investor club and some other aliases. He's quite annoying, actually. Yes, he has toned it down, but the other day, he was once again posting his charts and graphs. He's so full of himself, he cannot help it.

    SS - Got canned last time around, and no surprise there. Spent lots and lots of time posting on invclub and homeown aliases, with very detailed posts. Not sure how he got any work done all day.

    BH - the last piece of the puzzle. Equally annoying as the other 2, should have been canned this time around, but appears to have survived for now.

    I agree, if BH can also shut-up, invclub will be a nice place to have good discussions about general investment topics. A community for people to share ideas, not essays.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 14, 2009 at 10:53 PM  

  • This is BVV again. Is not it a proof of my speed that on the things I spend 5 minutes, you believe it was a research paper. Just notice the time stamp on an email, and the time stamp on my response, and shut the f up.

    If you believe my work is sacrificed, that is best evaluated by my manager. You guys watch movies in your free time, I spread my time to share my knowledge. This is my passion, makes me and others a bit more intelligent.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM  

  • >This is BVV again

    If it is really you,Please stop. You are making a fool of yourself. Quite a lot of MSFT employees(your potential future leads,managers and coworkers) read these posts nowadays.

    >If you believe my work is sacrificed, that is best evaluated by my manager
    Sure. I would love to hear about gold stars, the millions of $$ you have saved for the company, the E/20s etc...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 15, 2009 at 10:23 AM  

  • If you believe my work is sacrificed, that is best evaluated by my manager


    Sure. I would love to hear about gold stars, the millions of $$ you have saved for the company, the E/20s etc...
    Charts coming in 3... 2... 1...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 15, 2009 at 1:08 PM  

  • BVV?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 15, 2009 at 5:28 PM  

  • I do not have a gold star, but is it a requirement for the satisfactory work? Do you have a gold star? See my FB profile, and you will see even very senior people in the company wants to befriend me.

    Why should I stop? I did not start posting here about me. Somebody accused me. Whoever reads my accusation should read my defense also. I do not want to work in a company where not the accuser but defenders are punished. I know my management chain, and none of them is as narrow minded as posters on this site are.

    I am revealing my identity why do not you do the same? Why not respond to my postings internally?

    -bvv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 15, 2009 at 8:05 PM  

  • Give it up BVV. Can't you see no one here respects you? Every post about you, you're being mocked, and rightfully so.

    Go away quietly and let this thing die, or you'll continue to be ridiculed.

    And just give it a rest on invclub, will ya? That garbage is too much. Sadly, I haven't yet figured out a way to automaticaly send your posts to the Deleted Items folder. I don't think that works on DLs with filtering.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 15, 2009 at 8:59 PM  

  • You don't even know how to delete email automatically from a sender, So you won't even understand my postings.

    -bvv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 15, 2009 at 11:01 PM  

  • You don't even know how to delete email automatically from a sender, So you won't even understand my postings.

    I was just going to sit this one out because I'm not on any of the lists where this BVV person posts, but that is just one of the most absurd if/then statements I've ever read.

    It ranks right up there with the time I heard some Chinese kid say, when it became apparent he was in way over his head in a conversation in an art history course back in college, "Art is dead...because Hitler is dead."

    Huh? Spout incomprehensible nonsense much?

    BVV, I have no idea who you are, but if understanding your postings is dependent on knowledge of how to set up advanced filtering rules in Outlook, then I can only assume you're not posting anything worth reading.

    Yeah, I think you'd better give it a rest now here, maybe on the DLs too.

    ::eyeroll till it hurts::

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 16, 2009 at 7:15 AM  

  • Non-compete question How anal is MSFT in enforcing non-competes? I am looking at leaving in another few months and I am already getting good feelers from competitors in the area that I am working in. By no means am I a big fish, which is why I don't think MSFT can clobber me with a non-compete. By the way, I had read that in an arms-length negotiation where signing the non-compete is the only way for a peon like me to get the offer, non-competes are essentially non-reinforcable. The law also varies from state to state. Anyway, can someone who has unfortunately gotten laid off recently or has left the company share their experiences related to non-competes? Does the ugly face of management come up when you resign? Is there any law that I have to show my new offer letter to these morons?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 16, 2009 at 1:55 PM  

  • I would give up on writing posts on a DL, if you point shortcomings in my post on the DL itself. Anybody could hide his identity to post nonsense comments here. My name is explicitly thrown here, so I do not have a choice of being anonymous. How unfair.

    If you have any truth and honesty, put your opinion in response to my posts on the DL.

    -bvv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM  

  • But BVV, most of your posts are garbage, so why should anyone waste time repsonding to them?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 16, 2009 at 5:23 PM  

  • Why are you wasting your time here in calling them garbage? Why not do it when your identity is revealed and also point out garbage as garbage at the time it was thrown on your face. Eat it there like a delicious icecream, poop it here and call it garbage.

    -bvv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 16, 2009 at 9:06 PM  

  • I don't even know who BVV is, and I don't care. Please take this boring pissing contest elsewhere. Thank you.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 12:13 AM  

  • Today I heard that one of the RIF'd former 'softies I know -- a rotten person and a mediocre team contributor -- is exploring new job opportunities within MS. I also heard that one common thread between all the RIF'd folks is that they've had poor reviews at some point in the recent past.

    Made me wonder if it's going to be an uphill battle for those who were RIF'd. Will HR show the hiring manager the reasons why the person was let go? And if the RIF'd employee's most recent manager is contacted for a reference (by someone within MS), what will happen?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 12:18 AM  

  • "one common thread between all the RIF'd folks is that they've had poor reviews at some point in the recent past"

    Quite a lot of comments in mini-msft indicate this isn't necessarily true...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 1:25 AM  

  • What exactly *is* the common thread? Doesn't seem likely that the selection of people to be RIF'd would be random.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 1:37 AM  

  • What exactly *is* the common thread? Doesn't seem likely that the selection of people to be RIF'd would be random.


    From the folks I know who got RIF'd it seems to be a combination of the direct manager's ability/inability to fight for less reduction and their political standing, and then it seems to be based on relationship with said manager. Some of the folks were not good at the politics, some were brilliant in their field but were not shy about asking the tough questions that managers hate or perhaps answering the MSPoll honestly. That is purely my perspective from the few I know. And looking at some of those left behind - absolutely useless but they have their tongues up someone's arse.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 7:03 AM  

  • Thanks for answering my question. No surprise that politics played a role. Such is life in nearly every context.

    The person I know who was RIF'd was constantly bad-mouthing others at Microsoft and treated many of the people on her own team as if they were something she'd stepped in. With her gone, it's as if a toxic body was cut out of the team. The air in our building feels fresher, the sun is shining, and I swear I can hear birds singing.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 1:20 PM  

  • To the person asking about the non-compete:

    Unless you're on the level of a GM or higher, have invented (not patented, invented) a couple major things, or have a one-in-a-kind skill that can't be found anywhere else in the company, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

    Dozens of folks jumped ship to Google when the jumping was good, but I think Kai-fu Lee, who went to head up Google China, is the only one they raised a stink about.

    So, bottom line: If your move to a competitor is not likely to cause Ballmer to throw a chair, you're probably safe.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 8:03 PM  

  • The person I know who was RIF'd was constantly bad-mouthing others at Microsoft and treated many of the people on her own team as if they were something she'd stepped in. With her gone, it's as if a toxic body was cut out of the team. The air in our building feels fresher, the sun is shining, and I swear I can hear birds singing.Yeah we have one of these creeps in Zune. It gets really bad when he forgets to take his meds.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM  

  • I don't even know who BVV is, and I don't care. Please take this boring pissing contest elsewhere. Thank you.
    Sounds like a good idea. So, let's close the topic of BVV by stating that he sucks and hopefully will focus more on his work, instead of spending hours posting on internal DLs and "sharing his vast amounts of wisdom and knowledge" with the rest of us.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 1:08 AM  

  • " I also heard that one common thread between all the RIF'd folks is that they've had poor reviews at some point in the recent past."

    Definitely not true -- there were some very strong performers who got the axe. I know a few people who were recently promoted and/or just received gold star bonuses who were on the unlucky list...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 1:51 AM  

  • I did not post anything here except to refute what others are saying. Now the last poster wants to close the matter but after his opinion is taken as conclusion.

    Now the audience could decide who has more itching of posting, he/she or I? He/she is so confident of the quality of his/her posting that he/she needs the mask of anonymousity.

    So let us close this thread on me, by stating that some people find my posting useful. The person who brought my name here is basically a jerk. I asked mini to block the postings on me in the main thread, which Mini seems to have honored. I and my manager also know who this person is who is throwing mud on me here. A coward jerk.

    -bvv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 7:50 AM  

  • bvv said:
    I and my manager also know who this person is who is throwing mud on me here. A coward jerk.
    -bvv
    Okay BVV, So you and your manager!! are both occupying their time reading , especulating and responding together on these blogs rather than working. Sadly, That's the state of affairs of your work ethics. Get a real job you two.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM  

  • From what have I seen, the criteria for RIF'ing people has nothing to do with performaning.

    The criteria looks like:

    1) whether your group is
    hosed or not

    2) whether the decision makers
    (GM or director) like you or not

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 2:23 PM  

  • Was any GM let go?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 2:49 PM  

  • Only two in my group were RIF'd. One was my manager and the other was someone I'd never met. The team is working on a relatively new product, one that is growing exponentially as it expands its international reach. And big product rollouts (Win 7, Office 14) will require all hands on deck.

    In addition, the manager who was canned had several important projects in her job description. So given the above, you'd think her role would be considered critical -- which it might have been. However ... her own management had grown so tired of her vitriolic, destructive behavior that Criteria #1 mentioned in this thread seems to have been immaterial.

    She put her own petty interests above the greater good. For example, she tried to fire high value vendors after she built up personal grudges against them. (In both cases, her own manager reversed these attempts.) Seems pretty clear that her deplorable personal conduct and underwhelming contributions made her a target, and the mass RIFs created a perfect opportunity to add her to the list. I heard a rumor that her position may even be filled by a new hire. Almost anyone would be an improvement.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 3:58 PM  

  • Because this coward jerk referred my manager to this posting.

    Stop making negative conclusion from everything. There are ways things could happen and you may perceive it to be negative. You negative presupposition is what we do not need in Microsoft.

    -bvv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 7:03 PM  

  • Would you two or three take your personal conflict elsewhere?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 8:00 PM  

  • I have a very simple suggestion to BVV and the other b*thces who are involved in this pi$$ing match:

    Get a life, or the lack thereof, and move on, please. The rest of us on this blog are getting pretty tired of this crap.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 18, 2009 at 10:53 PM  

  • I haven't read this back room for a few weeks, but who is BVV and why is he posting here if people 1) know who he is IRL and 2) send his manager here to read what he's writing?

    Is he actively trying to get fired? There are easier ways that won't screw with your reputation quite so badly...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 19, 2009 at 1:54 AM  

  • I am writing here to show that I write with maturety, and I did not initiate this discussion but only responded to the accusation with my name attached to it. I am not coward as I put my name to my postings.

    This also shows that people are making false accusation because they are not willing to reveal their names as I do.

    -bvv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 19, 2009 at 8:38 AM  

  • I kept wondering what underwear had to do with Microsoft then I realized we're talking about BVV and not BVD. Honest mistake, after all, I wear Jockeys.

    Sorry, I'm a little late to the party. I guess that happens when you're trying to keep your job.

    Pardon the interruption. You may now resume your petty arguments.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 19, 2009 at 10:01 AM  

  • Is BVD still around? They use to do alot of tv commercials.

    Boxers are the way to do. It's alot more comfortable.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 19, 2009 at 11:01 AM  

  • Oh *snap* Sorry, Jockey, the brand, not jockey as in the weenie-hammock style.

    I agree that boxers are the only way to go.

    I don't know if BVD is still around - I just know that I enjoy this conversation more than BVV (who I'm *certain* is still around)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 19, 2009 at 11:55 AM  

  • bvv wrote: I am writing here to show that I write with maturety, and ...bvv : Seems you guys have a lot of time in your hands. Can you give away your jobs to those who really-really want to be productive, and actually build some useful software? Thank you very much. There are many folks out there unemployed who would like to have a job, maybe your job(s).

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 19, 2009 at 3:29 PM  

  • boxer-briefs. you hosers need to enter the 21st century.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at May 19, 2009 at 4:19 PM  

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